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Basically, what we’re saying to people today is:

You’re interested in tech and you want a nice home (or just any home) and stability? Go work at Google, Facebook, or some other surveillance capitalist.

What’s that? You want to work on free and open source? Sure, go work at IBM or Oracle… Oh… you don’t mean enterprise software? Tech to protect human rights/democracy? Not for profit hippie-dippie crap for the common good?

Oh, then suffer.

I mean, is it any surprise things are as they are?
Kevin Karhan :verified:
Eeyupp...

Either one has to sell their soul to some corporation or suffer...

No matter if it's #GigWork [#UberEats] , #GrindWork [Any fast food job] or whatever...
#ubereats #gigwork #grindwork
Kevin Karhan :verified:
at this point basically all my projects are stalling due to lack of funding...

And since #NUCbook and other projects go against #SurveillanceCapitalism, #PlannedObsolescence and/or other #Rentseeking they won't get funded.

https://github.com/KBtechnologies/nucbook

GitHub - KBtechnologies/nucbook: A modular & open design 13" Notebook that can be customized and upgraded to fit user's needs

A modular & open design 13" Notebook that can be customized and upgraded to fit user's needs - GitHub - KBtechnologies/nucbook: A modular & open design 13" Notebook that can b...
GitHub
#surveillancecapitalism #plannedobsolescence #rentseeking #nucbook
Aral Balkan
@kkarhan I hear you.

PS. Has anyone taken the name Modbook, yet? ;)
@Kevin Karhan :verified:
Kevin Karhan :verified:
AFAIK that is still a company in existance...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh1LC0M2zLc

And @snazzyq went to their offices...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AoX-5KIh9Q

Modbook Mac Tablet: Where Did You Go? - Krazy Ken's Tech Talk

The now rare Modbook Mac tablet was successful at one time, but when $1,800,000 is raised for a product that never shipped, the investors grow impatient, and...
YouTube
@Quinn Nelson
MiKlo:~/citizen4.eu$💙💛
@Kevin Karhan :verified: @Aral Balkan
And just out of curiosity - why is a project that is supposed to be against #SurveillanceCapitalism being hosted on a site that undoubtedly belongs to #SurveillanceCapitalism ? Well, unless we exclude (for convenience? Because not for lack of other options) #microsoft from it....
#microsoft #surveillancecapitalism @Aral Balkan @Kevin Karhan :verified:
Kevin Karhan :verified:
@miklo Q: Do you also criticize anti-capitalists for using #Patreon and #YouTube?

Do you criticize #Prisoners from the USA for "being part" of a for-profit incarceration system??

I want you to think about this for a minute...
https://soc.citizen4.eu/display/94d43991-9964-b7dc-61eb-bef311031412

MiKlo:~/citizen4.eu$💙💛

2023-07-19 12:51:45


@Kevin Karhan :verified: @Aral Balkan
And just out of curiosity - why is a project that is supposed to be against #SurveillanceCapitalism being hosted on a site that undoubtedly belongs to #SurveillanceCapitalism ? Well, unless we exclude (for convenience? Because not for lack of other options) #microsoft from it....

#youtube #patreon #prisoners @MiKlo:~/citizen4.eu$💙💛
MiKlo:~/citizen4.eu$💙💛
@Kevin Karhan :verified: @Aral Balkan
And do you feel you are a prisoner of Microsoft and Gooogle that you write like that ? I could understand it if github or youtube were the only tools in their field. But thanks to the people who put a lot of work into their #foss / #decentralised alternatives, we no longer have to be prisoners of Microsoft and Google.
@Aral Balkan @Kevin Karhan :verified:
Kevin Karhan :verified:
@miklo Please feel free to controbute to the project but stop wasting my personal time.

Needless to say that my projects only create cost on Microsoft's end and no profit whatsoever as I never even paid a single cent to them.

If they ever go full asshole onto me I'd just move the project when the need exists.

Meanwhile it's irrelevant for a #git where it's hosted.

I just have neither the time nor budget nor spoons to setup a #GitLab or #Gitea at this point...
#Gitea #gitlab #git @MiKlo:~/citizen4.eu$💙💛
Kevin Karhan :verified:
@miklo not to mention like all Software, it takes Maintenance...
@MiKlo:~/citizen4.eu$💙💛
MiKlo:~/citizen4.eu$💙💛
@Kevin Karhan :verified: @Aral Balkan I self-host all the tools I need, so I know something about maintenance...
@Aral Balkan @Kevin Karhan :verified:
Kevin Karhan :verified:
@miklo yeah but I don't have the spoons for any discussion at this point...
https://mstdn.social/@kkarhan/110742504918243981

#thxbye #next

Kevin Karhan :verified:

2023-07-19 19:55:22


@miklo Please feel free to controbute to the project but stop wasting my personal time.

Needless to say that my projects only create cost on Microsoft's end and no profit whatsoever as I never even paid a single cent to them.

If they ever go full asshole onto me I'd just move the project when the need exists.

Meanwhile it's irrelevant for a #git where it's hosted.

I just have neither the time nor budget nor spoons to setup a #GitLab or #Gitea at this point...

#next #thxbye @MiKlo:~/citizen4.eu$💙💛
Aral Balkan
@miklo @kkarhan Not everyone has the time or energy to do everything perfectly according to every possible set of purist criteria. Should we try to use alternatives if they exist? Sure. Should we make those alternatives as easy to use as possible so more people use them? Yes, please. Should we give hell to folks doing the best they can with the right intentions if they don’t meet our criteria 100%? Please, no. Let’s try and keep things in perspective and to be kind.
@MiKlo:~/citizen4.eu$💙💛 @Kevin Karhan :verified:
Kevin Karhan :verified:
thx.

For Same does for a lot of of other things:
I'd love to get #FSF / #GNUtils out of my tech stack just for them letting #Stallman back in but alas I'm kinda forced to work with #bash and #nano and stuff...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2SKenHRhMg

Why Richard Stallman's Return to the FSF Is Not To Be Celebrated ...

Relevant Links:Open Letter Requesting RMS's Dimissal and Resignation of FSF's Board of Directors: https://github.com/rms-open-letter/rms-open-letter.github.i...
YouTube
#fsf #stallman #bash #nano #GNUtils
Ten wpis został zedytowany (1 rok temu)
Kevin Karhan :verified:
@miklo what did piss me off at this conversation was the sheer unwillingness to get back at the core topic...

Cuz I certainly don't have time for this shit!
https://mstdn.social/@kkarhan/110743059624340637

Kevin Karhan :verified:

2023-07-19 22:16:26


@miklo yeah but I don't have the spoons for any discussion at this point...
https://mstdn.social/@kkarhan/110742504918243981

#thxbye #next

@MiKlo:~/citizen4.eu$💙💛
Idris Elbow Macaroni
@kkarhan @aral@mastodon.ar.al @miklo

> I'd love to get #FSF / #GNUtils out of my tech stack

honestly I’m just trying to get developers out of my stack entirely
#fsf #GNUtils @MiKlo:~/citizen4.eu$💙💛 @Kevin Karhan :verified:
Kevin Karhan :verified:
@aral go ahead and do your own hing then...

Build some #CCSS and be happy about it, cuz you got some #RonniePickerling vibes and I can't give any f**ks ...

#thxbye #next
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dcv6GKNNw&t=75s

Do you know who I am? I'm Ronnie Pickering! Who? - #doyouknowwhoiam?

This video has been shown on Frustrated Britain (ITV Television), Caught on Camera with Nick Cannon and 'Exposed' (NBC Television in America) and by some two...
YouTube
#next #ccss #thxbye #ronniepickerling @Aral Balkan
Ten wpis został zedytowany (1 rok temu)
Kevin Karhan :verified:
@solder_on @miklo or to pit it into more polite words:
"I DIDN'T ASK YOU A GODDAMN THING!"
https://mstdn.social/@kkarhan/110742504918243981

Kevin Karhan :verified:

2023-07-19 19:55:22


@miklo Please feel free to controbute to the project but stop wasting my personal time.

Needless to say that my projects only create cost on Microsoft's end and no profit whatsoever as I never even paid a single cent to them.

If they ever go full asshole onto me I'd just move the project when the need exists.

Meanwhile it's irrelevant for a #git where it's hosted.

I just have neither the time nor budget nor spoons to setup a #GitLab or #Gitea at this point...

@MiKlo:~/citizen4.eu$💙💛 @Idris Elbow Macaroni
Idris Elbow Macaroni
@kkarhan @miklo @aral@mastodon.ar.al

it was a joke about how everybody develops bc everybody plugs logic into shit. sry it didn’t come across
@MiKlo:~/citizen4.eu$💙💛 @Kevin Karhan :verified:
Idris Elbow Macaroni
@kkarhan @miklo

I do apologize it infuriated sufficiently to provoke internet yelling. hopefully it’s not stressful. ❤️
@MiKlo:~/citizen4.eu$💙💛 @Kevin Karhan :verified:
CartyBoston
Valley tech bro billionaire infatuation was *such* a distraction, we lost a decade.
𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧)
The big guys have their money printer with their politician amigos to decide who gets the monies.

https://techstartups.com/2021/12/18/80-us-dollars-existence-printed-january-2020-october-2021/

It goes into Corporation to bail them out or Investors and Startups to do nonsense ...and from their into the employee salaries too.

Independent peeps need to make their own money printer or suffer forever.
Do you have any alternative ideas how this will ever change?
Maybe vote for the right folks?
Ben Werdmuller
I was just joking with someone about this the other day. My software was used by movements all over the world to rally and organize for justice. I only was able to get out of debt and find some retirement savings when I took a left turn into VC-funded startups for a while.

And now here I am in non profit open source, and, well, those savings were fun to have while they lasted.

Not that I did it for the money. But still.

Aral Balkanudostępnił to.

Aral Balkan
@ben Similar.

Initially sold a couple of flats we had in Turkey to fund our work but, when that money ran out, Laura started contracting for Stately (which is VC-funded) and that’s what’s keeping us off the streets currently.

We’ve been turned down for every EU fund we’ve applied for and I’m done wasting time with it.

So, yeah, we’re not directly funded by VC (nor would we be) but we’re still more funded by Silicon Valley than by the commons though everything we do is for the common good.
@Ben Werdmuller
Ben Werdmuller
Perhaps ironically, Elgg was doing really well when we were a British limited company with no investment. It all went to pot when we lost focus on customer-aligned revenue, when investors entered the picture.

So that’s how I’m thinking about these things these days. Open source at the center of a small business. I’m done trying to think about investors or non profit grants. I just want to find people who will pay for a solution, in order to underwrite software for all.
charlie :linux: :mastodon:
I think it’s the same in all industries, you can’t make good money simply by good will😮‍💨

Even in big NGO you can earn more than you do some good business to the poor
whereisk
I mean, were things ever different?
Aral Balkan
@whereisk I feel the more important question is: can things be made better?

(And yes, yes they can. Whether there’s any political will for it… that‘s a whole other question entirely.)
@whereisk
whereisk
I hope so - though I can't picture it.
Tio
That's exactly what we talk about in our just released documentary https://www.tromsite.com/documentaries/trom2/ - and this applies to every "job" out there.

If you want to help with anything because you want to see a better society, good luck! We are all figurines on a Monopoly board and have to roll the dice, jump to the next block, pay fees, and so forth.

Survival mode, Planet Earth.
Ten wpis został zedytowany (1 rok temu)
Chris Gioran 💔
This hits incredibly close to home for me.

That's exactly why i quit my job. I want to build _something_ that gives people the opportunity to be creative without being beholden to an exploitative system rotten to the core.

I think it's possible. Perhaps i want to believe it's possible. But if its not, then it's still worth doing.

I am so fucking pumped to be in these conversations. ✊

Aral Balkanudostępnił to.

FranksAgain
I think it’s the same crisis all over though. Mega corporations leading to cog-in-the-machine jobs. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/09/gen-z-lazy-girl-jobs-tiktok-work

Gen Z want to work ‘lazy girl jobs’. Who can blame them?

Young women are eschewing hustle culture to focus on life outside of work. Perhaps they are beating capitalism at its own game, says author and editor Daisy Jones
Daisy Jones (The Guardian)
Edward L Platt
I feel this. "Do no harm" has been the bare minimum for my tech career, and it has been challenging. Opportunities are out there, but rare. One of my main goals is to find ways to create more opportunities for like-minded tech workers.
Andreu Casablanca 🐀
When I talk about this problem with some of my (non-tech) acquaintances I can see them struggling to not yell at me something like "fucking spoiled brat, just suck it".

"Normies" are also clearly at fault for this clusterfuck when they not only do nothing to fix it or prevent it, but also prefer to attack those who oppose it.
Jacky Tweedie
there are alternatives and it's a good time to get creative about them
Edward L Platt
part of the problem is that work outside large firms or vc-funded startups isn't valued by donors or the media. The director of a tech for "social good' program once told me I didn't have "experience working on real projects" because I hadn't worked for Google (despite their recruiters' best efforts).

Aral Balkanudostępnił to.

msb98
it sucks, but that's life. If your goal is money, then you're forced to work with even greedier people.

Is there even any open source, human-right conscious tech companies that can guarantee you a nice house and the same level of stability as Google/Facebook?
Avocado Toast
tech isn't the only field like this... Almost all of them are.
Childless Cat Lord
When society as a collective decides that our purpose as humans is to struggle to survive, we get to where we are.
Mark T. Tomczak
I don't think it's ever been otherwise. The open source movement more or less grew out of the academic class, which is a vanishingly-small ivory tower of "People who get paid to think." Everyone else gets paid to do something concrete for someone, so it's no surprise that there's no money in just open source software.
Alex (moved to @alexmu@mastod)
if you really want to sell your soul, there's always "fintech"
Katherine Cox-Buday
we could have a conv about isms, but if we start with where we're at, we have to look at why there's no $ in this.

I believe these are contributing:

1. People aren't aware that things could be better.
2. People don't understand why they should care about these things.
3. People have been spread too thin to grow beyond anything but getting by.

I'm not sure if that last one is on purpose or an emergent property of a deeply sick society.

Fix these and I think you fix the problem.
Alex Granford
one of the best career paths still is, and has been for the past few decades, is to start with IT consultancies of the world, get a good real world exposure, get beaten into some core SDLC processes, work with decent solutions and platforms (cloud, enterprise, foss, anything) and discipline, then go explore the world as you see fit.

Not sure what exactly you want to say and to whom with that message….
SquidAceBoi
screwing people over is damn good money. Privatize the wins, socialize the losses.
macros-arcadio
the war class have 200 years.
Aral Balkan
Hmm… if only we could crowdfund it somehow… you know, if we all agreed to pay a portion of our earnings so that they could be used for things that benefited us all. We could call it… I don’t know… faxes? No. Taken. Paxes? Nope, doesn’t sound right. Wait, I got it… how about taxes?

https://ar.al/2019/11/29/the-future-of-internet-regulation-at-the-european-parliament/

The Future of Internet Regulation at the European Parliament

A brief write-up of my talk at the EU Parliament last week with embedded videos of my talk and a link to my slides.
Aral Balkan
Ten wpis został zedytowany (1 rok temu)
teknomunk
@aral@mastodon.ar.al @AudraTran@fosstodon.org

> if we all agreed

Well, generally people start having problems with taxes precisely because they DIDN'T agree to it.

Someone else decided to take their money.

Usually that's theft, but calling it that causes more people to resist the collection.
📡(RTP) Privacy & Tech Tips
As I like to say, innovation is no longer by chance, but by finance.

#HumanRights #tech #surveillanceCapitalism
#humanrights #tech #surveillancecapitalism
Pusher Of Pixels (old account)
govt contracting was a happy medium for me. 10+ years bldg the software to process Refugees into the US
TJ800X
For a while I’ve been working on funding mechanisms consistent with four-freedom licenses … but the knee jerk reaction to any sort of monetization scheme has been disheartening.
Coralie Renée
Even when you look at open source or even free software (as in freedom), you see that google is funding them or that they are on github or that AWS is used... 😑
Essem :skeeter:
gee i sure do love living in a cyberpunk capitalist dystopia
M8_d
here my thoughts at concept level: it's not surveillance, it's spying, or worse to say as stealing or robbery, surveillance is authorized as ownership for their property security, or democracy process approved safety devices at public places (not any private things, and should with strict storage/access/release policy)
M8_d
and from my point-of-view, that's "capitalist bought politics", hh
Migsar Navarro
I was thinking in a small reply about legitimization, it is sad but it seems that working for big corporations is the only way to legitimate skills.
After reading the thread, I can only wonder if the answer also lies here, to make money within the system you just build on top of it, but to create alternatives you have to start by fighting everyone else with a slightly different point of view, including those that do not want to have strong opinions but just comfortable lives.
scottehzxor
The market decides what's valuable. It's unfortunate, but so is nature. The fundamental unit of measurement in life is pain and suffering. Capitalism has managed to change that a great deal through innovation.

Life, nature, the world, the universe has never been fair. That's why we need cybersecurity professionals in ever vector.
Aral Balkan
@scottehzxor “Evolution by natural selection is the explanation for why we exist. It is not something to guide our lives in our own society. If we were to be guided by the evolution principle, then we would be living in a kind of ultra-Thatcherite, Reaganite society.

Study your Darwinism for two reasons: because it explains why you’re here, and the second reason is, study your Darwinism in order to learn what to avoid in setting up society.”

– Richard Dawkins 1/2
@scottehzxor

Aral Balkanudostępnił to.

Aral Balkan
@scottehzxor “What we need is a truly anti-Darwinian society. Anti-Darwinian in the sense that we don’t wish to live in a society where the weakest go to the wall, where the strongest suppress the weak, and even kill the weak. We—I, at least—do not wish to live in that kind of society. I want to live in the sort of society where we take care of the sick, where we take care of the weak, take care of the oppressed, which is a very anti-Darwinian society.”

– Richard Dawkins 2/2
@scottehzxor

Aral Balkanudostępnił to.

Loukas (They/Them) 🏳️‍⚧️
@scottehzxor

I would go one step further and say that what we see as the market selecting the fittest is actually a system that desperately relies on community, sharing, mutual aid and kindness, but which does not include those things in its metrics. They are unmeasured and invisible but without them the whole system would collapse.
@scottehzxor
Jonathan D. Cope, Esq.
@Loukas @scottehzxor I agree that capitalism is brutal but there is a way to stop the more devastating aspects of capitalism, such as stopping capital accumulation while, at the same time, giving benefits to workers more akin to European social security without having to resort to anarchy.
@Loukas (They/Them) 🏳️‍⚧️ @scottehzxor
Ten wpis został zedytowany (1 rok temu)
Iqbal Abdullah 🇯🇵🇲🇾
@scottehzxor Paraphrasing Pearl Buck, a civilization is measured by how they treat their weakest.
Darwin was watching animals, but it is a fact that animals also show compassion to their fellow animals.
@scottehzxor
VulcanTourist [MOVED]
@scottehzxor

Down with de-scriptive black markets and laws of the jungle.
Pre-scriptive altruism FTW.
@scottehzxor
Océane ⏚
I heard Kropotkin wrote a great book against Darwin's findings, showing that cooperation, and not competition, was at the core of the evolution of species.
Cogito ergo mecagoendios
@scottehzxor hi, I just want to pint out that evolution is not like trial-by-combat. Evolution is like a random walk algorithm for non convex optimization. It converges to local minima, only defined by lack of change, and it does so slowly. People really don't get that. There is absolutely no guarantee that the point it brings you to is good for everyone, and even it it did there is no good reason to believe you couldn't reach there faster by planning.
@scottehzxor
Jaddy
Unfortunatley, Dawkins ignores his own principles when it comes to trans and nonbinary people. He joined the TERFs and insists that "biology knows only male and female" - which is not even scientifically true anymore and furthermore has nothing to do with gender issues.

@scottehzxor
@scottehzxor
EdenDestroyer (He/Him)
isnt this the same guy that joined the intellectual dark web? the fascist group of pretense-academics?
Aral Balkan
He’s a cis white man with a huge amount of privilege who has failed spectacularly at staying in his lane (as cis white men with huge amounts of privilege often do). Needless to say, I neither approve of nor share his transphobic views. In this specific quote, however, he is spot on (even if his own actions contradict the possibility of having the sort of society he states he wants because we can’t have that while denying the basic humanity of any group of people).
Ten wpis został zedytowany (1 rok temu)
Aral Balkan
@me It’s sad. Because we need those alternatives. But I also cannot blame you. Nor would I urge you to do what I do given the first-hand knowledge I have of exactly what it entails. So, yeah, you’re right to do so.
@Jonathan Lamothe
Alecs Ștefănescu
my dream is to have Computer Science courses in colleges talk about a career as a tech activist, or a programmer in the civic society as a very reputable and viable career option.

I work as a programmer supporting journalists and activists exclusively. I've worked for the IT industry in the first part of my career. In my mind and, really, in my body, these two environments feel drastically different.

The humanity in tech keeps us sane.
Aral Balkan
That would be great. It would, however, likely require colleges/universities to stop thinking of themselves as Big Tech’s human resources department.
Ten wpis został zedytowany (1 rok temu)
johnbessa
No love for #Dawkins here!

My #Darwin is the phrase from his second paper "human morality evolved from the affection animals have for their young"

(Highly paraphrased)

From there: Kropotkin's Mutual Aid written to oppose so-called social darwinism. And shows a LOT of animal affection.
#darwin #dawkins
Chris Wiegman
Most of my tech career I've avoided big-tech and tried to work with universities. The last one, with a giant health complex, didn't even try to hide it's profit motive behind it's university association which was to avoid taxes.
M8_d
1 more is, overall spying is a illegal or criminal behavior, with only 2 exceptions: in a critical relationship between countries for government and government and on job officers, not for any normal ppl; in a war situation between government and government officially announced, not for government served country's all citizen, unless there is a court order in track; other than these, should be sued in court and punished by laws.
Stanley Jones
I’ve tried hard to find work that I believe in that still pays the bills.

I joined a cool company but it pivoted to adtech, then a cool company but it pivoted to crypto, then a cool company but it pivoted to AI. Each time leadership had to follow what could get funded. I’m looking again but I’m so cynical at this point…

Anyway, following these comments in hopes of an answer (or at least a good conversation).
Rotfarm
I agree and it feels like this in absolutely evety sector, and not just tech.
⇧