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What do we have to do to set up an *independent organisation* in Europe with an endowment from our (EU taxpayers’) money to maintain a free/open, private-by-default web browser that we legislate must be included in all operating systems made available in the EU?

#freeTheBrowser
#freeTheBrowser

2 użytkowników udostępniło to dalej

Arne Babenhauserheide
If you manage to reach someone from Igalia, that could be a good avenue for that, because they already have experience and they are strong free software advocates (and a workers cooperative). I know them via Andy Wingo, a maintainer of GNU Guile.

https://www.igalia.com/

Igalia - Open Source Consultancy and Development

Igalia is an open source consultancy specialised in the development of innovative projects and solutions.
Igalia
MiKlo:~/citizen4.eu$💙💛
@ArneBab @ar.al
Are you aware that publishing (on fedi) link to Igalia, you have broke TOS listed on https://www.igalia.com/legal/ ? :-) Look:
Except for the signs forming part of the hyperlink itself, the page on which the hyperlink is established will contain no distinguishing sign of those acknowledged by current legislation as belonging to Igalia, S. L., except where the latter has given its express authorisation.
Mastodon/Friendica show me not only the link itself but also preview of logo etc... Without their authorisation... :-)
I really don't know if writing so stupid TOS, they differ somehow from big-corpos...
BTW I have also broke TOS because...
The hyperlink will only allow for access to the Web site HOMEPAGE
:-)
@Aral Balkan @Arne Babenhauserheide
Arne Babenhauserheide
Since the preview-image is part of the link, I think any legal action would be on very shaky ground.
Aral Balkan
We would likely fork Firefox, remove all the Silicon Valley/commercial bullshit, and hire engineers from Mozilla and elsewhere who want to work somewhere where they have the freedom to work on a browser for the common good without any Silicon Valley/commercial interference.
Aral Balkan
The challenge here isn’t technical; it’s funding and independence.

To succeed, any such organisation must be free of political interference and its funding must be guaranteed via an endowment and not privy to the whims of short-term political posturing.
Admin
the #EU is full of political interference, and not in a good way so this aproch has its own problems.

I have been working with them a bit for the last few years...
#eu
Vegard (Hårfagre) Fjeldberg eo
Funding is the issue. I however lean in the direction that software should be crowd funded. That way, actual people are in the control of the project as opposed to organizations.

We need a paradigm shift. We expect everything from the internet to be free. But we need to normalize to give back to creators. We need systems that makes it easy, secure, private and convinient to tip. In a way that preserves autonomy.
Aral Balkan
If only there was a concept where we could all give a portion of what we make to crowdfund things for the common good… I don’t know, we could call it Raxes? Saxes… ? Something like that ;)
Abbie Normal
look, I think I understand you argument

but it's a purely theoretical arguments

We all knwo what taxes are, this soesn't make this idea more feasible

This is something that needs to be hacked through, I'm afraid

there are no shortcuts

Sorry if I sound pessimistic
Yal 🦄🎲✏️🏳️‍🌈
The challenge is also very much political, as well as it is societal.

EU is not that far from openly asking for the same tools/level of control and means to track its 'users', once upon a time called citizens. Maybe not to make gigantic piles of money but that doesn't change their willingness to access and use the exact same tools. And have them developed if need be.

The tracking (as much as our willingness to live with it) is the issue, more than it being commercial or not. Imho.
Klaudia (aka jinxx)
Okay, here we go ... So, @EUCommission let's do something more for our digital independence. How about some funding for a European browser project? And don't forget to push the Open Web Search project!
@European Commission
Ten wpis został zedytowany (4 miesiące temu)
Vegard (Hårfagre) Fjeldberg eo
I'm not sure where to stand on this. Is forking the best option? Are there design baggage if we use firefox code? Wrong assumptions about how the browsing experience should be?

Perhaps by developing a browser from scratch we will have a better understanding of how the browser can be developed further?

If so, then in the long run it might be better to start from scratch.
lord pthenq1
Who is we?
Do they have $$$?
digiEDU
There is already some kind of fork, called #LibreWolf. I'm using since couple of months. It seems to be much more friendly in terms of privacy. And I think is European :-)
#librewolf
tSatty
I'm with you almost all the way; right up until the "law that requires specific named software to be installed on countless computers". That's a security timebomb if I ever saw one.
aiquez
@digitalcourage
would be nice if you support development and raising awareness in public opinion
@fsfe
#public_digital_infrastructure
https://sdeps.eu/
.
also nice if you would make it possible to make a clean net-adress-space (don't know if that is technically possible or senseful) where #no_dark_patterns and #no_excessive_cookies are used #httpc-c_as_clean
#httpc #no_excessive_cookies #no_dark_patterns #public_digital_infrastructure @Free Software Foundation Europe @Digitalcourage
Sebastian Gallehr ☮️ ⁂
#freeTheBrowser great and important idea. I don't know how, but count on me.
#freeTheBrowser
André Ockers
It's already here, at #Trisquel
https://trisquel.info/en/wiki/abrowser-help
cc @digitalcourage
#trisquel @Digitalcourage
Aral Balkan
Oh, excellent, how large is the endowment and when can we start hiring Mozilla engineers to start moving the fork in a different direction? :)

(As I said, the problem isn’t technical. I can fork Firefox in the next minute. And many forks exist. This is about building a browser for the commons from the commons. For that we need an independent organisation funded from the commons. That’s the challenge here.)
Aral Balkan
It can very easily be worded so that it applies only to commercial operating systems to ENSURE that a free and open browser that protects freedom is included by default.
Gert V 🇵🇸
We will have to start somewhere..
MiKlo:~/citizen4.eu$💙💛
@cybercow @ar.al
The first step will be done if EU law enforce at least that:
- users can install ANY browser they want (not the case with Apple & iOS !)
- OS manufacturers will respect user choice and not convince ( with shady practices ) to use their own browsers
@Aral Balkan @☑️✅ cybercow ✅☑️
MiKlo:~/citizen4.eu$💙💛
@anedroid @ar.al The browser created with all the above condition can be still full of tracking code and so on ... So the free and open software is not the only condition that we should expect.
@Aral Balkan
Moritz Strohm
Why should the EU support the creation of another browser, funded by taxpayer money? It is a lot cheaper to regulate existing browsers. The "digital identity framework" is a current example:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/12/eus-digital-identity-framework-endangers-browser-security

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/02/what-duck-why-eu-proposal-require-qwacs-will-hurt-internet-security

EU's Digital Identity Framework Endangers Browser Security

If a proposal currently before the European Parliament and Council passes, the security of HTTPS in your browser may get a lot worse.
Electronic Frontier Foundation
Aral Balkan
This is exactly why Greenpeace is funded by ExxonMobil today.

Oh, wait…
George Dorn
Except that Waterfox sold out to an adtech company in the end. This is why setting up the right governance is critical, to prevent the project from being co-opted.
KlyX
I am wondering the same. I wanted to switch from chrome to Firefox. Now, this does not make it easier. I love Arc - but it's chrome, I try Zen - it is Firefox. Argh. Would be onboard if there will be an initiative.
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